VIDEO: Why MAGA Aren't Patriots

Tara Setmayer sets MAGA straight.

This is one you don’t want to miss: Tara Setmayer is a former CNN and ABC News contributor — she is also a FORMER GOP Communications Director on Capitol Hill. Now she is a senior adviser for the Lincoln Project and wants Donald to lose. Tara also understands the media, and that is why she is calling them out for enabling him.

Below is just a trailer, the full video is beneath it.

This interview was fantastic. Tara Setmayer lays out in DETAIL:

• How the media is to blame for the both sides nonsense.
• Why we shouldn’t allow MAGA to co-opt patriotism. (This is an important way we can reach Independent voters!)
• How decent Americans MUST activate and get involved in 2024.

Above is just the trailer:

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Tara is a former Republican who is inspiring voters to abandon Donald Trump and vote for President Biden. One in Four Republicans Think MAGA Is a Threat to Democracy. Before 2024 I want to lift voices like hers.

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[Transcript, edited for flow and clarity.]

MARY

Tara Setmayer, it is so good to see you. It's been far too long. How have you been?

TARA

Oh, it's so great to see you, Mary. I always enjoy our conversations and it's just been what we thought was going to be an off year, kind of sort of, but not really. It's been incredibly busy. There's been no downtime except for the two weeks that I was able to travel for my 10-year wedding anniversary and birthday in September. That's about it. The rest of the time has been nonstop because there's a lot of crazy going on here. But you know what? It's exhilarating. And the idea of fighting for our democracy and having this collective group of Americans who are saying, “Hell no, we're not doing this again,” is energizing. It's energizing for me. Some people might think I'm crazy, but I'm energized.

MARY

No, that's incredibly important. And I wanted to talk a little bit more about that, but for anybody watching, you guys have got to check out Tara's vacation photographs. Do you bring a professional studio photographer with you? First of all, you guys go to the most stunningly beautiful places, and your photographs are incredible.

TARA

Thank you. Well, we have an affinity for Italy. It’s one of my favorite places on the planet.

MARY

Mine too.

TARA

My grandmother is Italian, part Italian or father was, and I went to Sicily for the first time in 2009, fell in love with it. I just felt a connection there and I had no idea that the town I was going to, Caccamo—it's about 40 minutes from Palermo. I had no idea that that would end up being the place that I would get married in. In 2013, they had this big, beautiful thousand-year-old Norman Castle Costello, in Caccamo and my husband was down for it. He said, “Let's do it.” And we did. We had this beautiful, amazing Sicilian wedding and we decided 10 years later to go back and celebrate with our friends there and experience it again. Everyone should get an opportunity to travel to Italy, and Sicily in particular is just a special place. And so we did Sicily and we did Sardinia. We have friends there as well. And we also had a chance to check out Ireland, which was super cool.

MARY

Not anywhere near Sicily.

TARA

No, we stopped there on the way. My husband loves fish and chips, so he was like, we have to go back to Ireland and get some fish and chips. So I'm like, alright, let's do it. So we did.

MARY

Oh, that's fabulous. I'm a Tuscany person. I haven't been Sicily and because I've barely traveled in the last few years, unfortunately, and whenever I have a chance, I want to go back to Tuscany. But just from your pictures alone, it tells me I need to get my ass out to Sicily.

TARA

You would love it if you love Tuscany for the wine. Sicily has fabulous wines too because of Mount Aetna and the volcanic soil there. So excellent wines in Sicily, and we've been to Tuscany too. Love it. We've been to Arezzo. We went to the Sienna Festival there one year. It was super.

MARY

So, we're going to start talking about less important things than Italy.

TARA

You have to have a life, right? Italy is life, and I feel like you have to have balance. And for my husband and I, we both have very intense careers. My husband's a federal law enforcement officer, 23 years and counting. And so we have to find things to balance out or else we would just lose it. So travel and wine seem and live music. We're big live-music people too. That centers us.

And for folks, even if you can't afford to go to Italy or these crazy exotic places, I'm blessed to be able to do that. But you can find what you love and what brings you joy locally. You can take day trips. We figured that out for three years during Covid. We discovered Virginia wine country and it's beautiful here in the DC area. Places we never would've explored or found. And now they are regular parts of our routine to escape and go away. We like to go antiquing and do things that you would think that were Boomers, we're only in our forties. But it's the little things. Just find the little things that bring you joy in life and do them. Do them, please. That's that is my plea.

MARY

I agree. Especially since this is going to be a pretty tough year, even for those who aren't as politically engaged or as involved because it's sort of in the air that there's something going on and it's not necessarily good. I wanted to get your take. Is there anything that's happened in 2023, which let's face it was not really an off-year, but not really a good year in a lot of ways. Has anything happened this past year that we can bring with us into 2024, either to mitigate the stress of it or to give us some hope that things are trending in the right direction, even if corporate media likes to convince us otherwise,

TARA

We could spend an entire hour on the way that the media is handling and covering the upcoming election. It's been very frustrating. I have not been silent about my displeasure with the way the media has covered this. And every opportunity I have when I'm given the platform, I say, “Hey, friends, in the media, you guys, you need to tell people the truth and stop trying to both sides this. No one is under any obligation to tell both sides of a lie or to try to draw some type of moral equivalence between what's happening with Joe Biden and the Democrats versus what's happening with Republicans and Donald Trump and the absolute insanity and dangerous insanity that is going on over there. There is no comparison. So stop trying to cover this. It's some traditional horse race, normal election. This ain't 2000. Okay? This isn't Bush v. Gore, this isn't Kerry v. Bush.”

This isn't any of that. This is something that we have not seen in this country ever at this level. So the media has played a larger role in why so many Americans feel like the economy sucks still when it doesn't. It's actually doing pretty incredible. It's insane. But corporate media and mass media, mass communications, now that we have social media and we have all these different platforms, we have citizen journalists and all different ways people get their information. There is a right-wing media ecosystem that is very good at staying on message. And then the other side, that's supposed to be the good media that's supposed to be holding powers accountable and telling the truth. They're trying to catch up. You're not going to compete with the other side doing what they do necessarily, but you need to point out the contrast and call out the bs. Stop playing the game you used to play because it doesn't exist anymore.

You have to play the game you're in. And that's why this year, I am hoping at some point, as we go into 2024, that there are those that have platforms like you and others that still reach lots of folks. They're able to counter-balance the wishy-washiness of the mainstream media that's afraid to go after Trump and the Republicans the way they need to because they're like, “Oh, we have to be objective and blah, blah, blah.”

You are not obligated to tell both sides of a lie. I'm sorry. You're just not. And so those of us who are out here fighting for our democracy and to protect it from this authoritarian death march that's happening on the Republican side, it's important for all of us to activate people we know and to use our platforms to explain what's at stake, why it matters, why we should care, and what we can do about it. Because I often say there's more of us than there are of them, but we have to be engaged. We don't have the luxury of being silent or apathetic. Democracy takes work. It doesn't defend itself. It's us. We have to do it. So, I feel good about it. We're out for the holidays and 2023 was a crazy year, but don't be discouraged. 2024 is when we have to do the work if you want to keep this democracy.

MARY

So many good points there, starting with the last one first: democracy is not an end in itself, it's a process that requires, as you said, constant work to keep and to make better, which is something that we haven't been doing because we have to guard our rear flank. The only way to make American democracy better is if we eliminate the threat that we continue to face.

Also, I'm totally with you about corporate media. It's just so frustrating. It's always about the odds, not the stakes, when it should be the other way around. And I'm with you that a journalist’s and journalism’s obligations are to democracy and be neutral as to the facts. But you need to be pro-democracy, right? And you can't be neutral as to the facts if you are, as you said, explaining both sides of a lie or airing both sides of a lie without explanation.

The Nerd Avengers had to go and hiatus a few months ago, and it still is on hiatus—I get angry emails about it all the time, but we'll be back. I consider you an honorary Nerd Avenger and the reason you haven't been on in a while is because we haven't been doing the show.

TARA

At least it wasn't me.

MARY

No, of course not; it was entirely me. But when we started making the distinction between mainstream and corporate media, I started saying, we are the mainstream media. You guys at Lincoln Project are the mainstream media. Anybody who's doing what we do without the pressure of having to perform in a particular way, without the corporate funding.

TARA

But we're citizen funded, right? Our only obligation is to the people who support us, it's not to shareholders or to a bottom line. It's like pbs, right? If you like it, donate to us and help us do more of it because we're doing it for you. There's a mutual benefit here, because our mission is to protect our democracy so that we can be a more perfect union. There's a reason why the founders use that language: “to become a more perfect union”. It means we haven't gotten there yet. It is a constant struggle to maintain and get better. And this way it keeps everybody engaged. So we're all invested in it. It's an investment in our democracy.

MARY

And the other excellent point you made was about refusing to play the game. The other person's not only playing the game, but is better at it. We saw this in 2016, we are seeing it again now with the other Republican nominees, if we can even call them that at this point. They are either trying to play the same game Donald's playing or they're just conceding. 

TARA

It's the greatest reality show for second place.

MARY

Exactly. See how that's working out for them. So by the same token, we can't play that game, either. And I think that the frustration is the fearmongering and the fascist rhetoric we see on the right actually resonate with a lot of people. And we can't fall into that trap. The way you put it is if we can create a positive goal, if we can create a positive environment for people to feel hopeful that we cannot just win, but make things better, I think that's a much better way to go than trying to out fascist the fascist.

TARA

It's so true. I mean, it's kind of corny, but true love conquers. All the positive will win out, but it requires everyone to be activated and invested and focused and disciplined to do it. And I think that's part of what those of us who are in this pro-democracy space, that's what we focus on. It's activating people because we're explaining to them this is what's at stake. And if you love this country the way we do, if you love the idea of more freedom and being that shining city on the hill, then we have to protect it. And I think when most people see it that way, it’s more motivating than the anger and the hatred and all of this disarray. That is a huge motivating factor for a certain segment of people. But like I said earlier, I think that there are more of us and there are of them; there's so much more good in this world than there is evil.

Sometimes you have to activate people because they take it for granted. And I think this country, for a long time, we've taken it for granted until Trump came along and showed us, holy shit, this is what happens if you stay on the sidelines or you just kind of dismiss it like it’s just a joke, it'll pass. No, no, no, no. We learned a very, very serious and deadly lesson by allowing Trumpism to take hold in this country and it's going to take an effort for us to beat it back. But I'll tell you what, you look at the polls and you look at election results since 2018. When people say we don't want what happened in the 1930s in Germany or Italy—we don't want that here. That's not what we want in America.

So, you saw women mobilize in huge numbers after the Dobbs decision. “Wait a minute, what do you mean that my kids will have less rights than my grandmother did? There's something fundamentally wrong with that. We're not going to take that”. And you saw women mobilize and say, “We're not going to do this.” And a lot of men too, the husbands—we call them “Dobbs Dads” at Lincoln Project. They're going, “Wait, hold on.” Maybe they're personally pro-life or I'm personally pro-life, but that's my religious beliefs shouldn't be foisted on everyday Americans who don't believe the same. That's not what legislation's supposed to be. We're not supposed to be the Handmaid's Tale here. And when you look at how Republicans are behaving, the Speaker of the House, Commander Johnson over there, this is not okay.

And the more that people pay attention, the more they go, “You know what? That's not the type of government we want” the more we've seen that reflected repeatedly in major elections. You asked me earlier what gave me hope in 2023. It was election results in most places. I'm from New Jersey originally. I'm a Jersey girl and I live down here in Virginia now outside of DC. Very different politics, but interesting dynamics nonetheless. What animated folks in New Jersey, where we thought that the Democrats were losing out to some of the MAGA Republicans that were rising in New Jersey, people thought, “Uh-oh, what's going to happen here in New Jersey?” Guess what? It didn't materialize. The MAGA malignancy got beaten back in New Jersey. Same thing here in Virginia. Not only did the state legislature and Senate get taken over by the Democrats, they gained seats for the first time.

So that ended Glenn Youngkin's dreams of having a Handmaid's Tale here in Virginia; and then Andy Beshear’s re-election in Kentucky. And just look at other places: Ohio, which is ruby red now. But Ohio voters said, “No, we're not okay with restricting a woman's right to control her own body.” I think that these are all examples, the ballot initiatives and the governor's races, these are all examples of where, when people are paying attention and are invested and realize what's at stake, they do the right thing. And the malignancy of Trumpism is beaten back. So, we have to make sure that happens again in 2024 because there's no room for error this time.

MARY

No, I don't think it's overstating it to say this is our last shot, just as I think it's their last shot, which I think goes a long way to explaining the fervor and intensity with which they're approaching this election. How do we match that? Because, again, a human nature, sometimes for people fear is more motivating than more positive emotions. But we can't go down that road. We need to create something where people feel welcome and we're actually changing things for the better. What do you think is a good way to get there in 2024, in the next 11 months that we have?

TARA

I think that we shouldn't allow the MAGAs to co-opt love of country. They have. Totally. And that pisses me off. And at the Lincoln Project, we've said this a couple times, and we've put out ads out where it's like, hold on the American flag. They don't own that. Don't let them co-opt that. They don't own our sense of patriotism. Okay, January 6th, insurrectionists, they're not patriots. Okay? They're traitors. And it's okay to have righteous anger. And I think that's the difference. It's righteous anger that these people are trying to co-opt what it means to be an American, what it means to defend the Constitution, what it means to be patriotic. Don't let them have that. And that's where I think you flip it. You can have righteous anger that's not rooted in hatred. Yet fear of losing our country to those people—that should be a motivating factor.

MARY

Tara, that is such an amazing distinction. And more people need to say that, yeah, they have their anger and they have their rage. I swear. It's just the two minute scream every day on the right.

TARA

Great 1984 reference.

MARY

Thank you. But our anger is righteous. And in that case, it's not a bad thing. It's a way to motivate as long as we don't let it consume us. They're the ones who are angry. We're the ones who have the reasons to be. So, I love that distinction.

TARA

It's like the civil rights movement. There were a lot of reasons to be angry and to be consumed with rage, and we could have ended up in a race war, but we didn't. It was the righteous anger of the American people across the spectrum that led to those dramatic changes for the better for this country. I mean, we're still a work in progress—the fact that it took that long, a hundred years from the Civil War, to finally have equal rights for people of color in this country is insane. But it happened because of the righteous anger of the American people. There are more people, I believe, who believe in doing the right thing than there are of the others. And it's just a matter of activating and recognizing what's at stake here. And I think that it takes all of us to do that.

MARY

It does. And last thing, because you're so engaged and you work so hard in this cause, what do you do? Or is there anything different you're going to be doing in 2024 to keep yourself tethered or to unplug, just so you can stay in the fight as effectively as you usually do?

TARA

Well, obviously wine will be involved. My husband and I are probably wine club members of six different vineyards in Virginia.

MARY

In moderation.

TARA

Yes, in moderation, of course. Of course.

But no, like I said earlier, you have to find joy and find the little things that are outside of politics. I'm a huge sports fan. During football season, my husband and I are big New York Giants fans. We met at a giant Super Bowl party. We are insane Giants fans. I grew up 15 minutes from Giant Stadium. My husband's from Brooklyn. We bond over the New York Giants and talking shit in the NFC East. Doesn't matter if we stink or not. That's what fandom is. You stay loyal. So sports are an outlet for me. For others, it might be baseball, it could be hockey. But don't take for granted those things that you enjoy doing because there's a lot of doom and gloom. It's true. It can be overwhelming. And then people just tune out. We can't have that.

We can't have it. You just have to find balance. If it's cooking, if it's basket weaving, I don't care what it is, but find something. Go take a painting class or just take some time for yourself to do things that make you feel good and that you enjoy. I don't care if it's dog grooming or if it's watching cat memes on Instagram. You need to find things that bring you joy and laughter. Laughter does good, like medicine. It's a proverb for a reason. And you have to find levity in all of this at some point, because otherwise you'll lose it. And we don't want to do that.

That's why at Lincoln Project, we have our hard-hitting ads, but then we also have the ads that make fun of Donald or make fun of the crazy, because our last week at the Republican Party where we do the compilation of the crazy shit that's happened in the last week, you have to bring some humor into it because it really is like a spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine go down.

MARY

Yeah, absolutely. And at this point, I'm of the mind that if whatever you're doing brings you joy and helps energize you or relax you, it's not frivolous—if it's video games or ping pong, whatever works for you.

We have such a punitive attitude here towards things like sleep or downtime or going on a vacation without bringing work with you. Speaking of which, you are about to embark on what may be the last vacation you have until November. So please keep posting pictures. I'm living vicariously.

TARA

Oh, thank you.

MARY

Your pictures are beautiful, and your vacations always look like they're out of a fairytale.

TARA

Like I said, you have to bring balance. We like to stargaze. That's something else that my husband and I do. We're amateur astronomers. We live about 45 minutes from a dark sky location. So that's cool. We go out to Shenandoah every year to go stargazing during the meteor showers in August. And this year we're going to another really cool place. It's called the Mount Teide Observatory which has one of the best dark skies in the world.

But you don't have to go travel to these exotic places to do that. You can star gaze in your backyard. So that's another example—mit's amazing to stare up at the sky and watch the International Space Station fly over you. There are apps you can get for free that show you where they're happening, or when there's meteor showers are happening. It's calming. It's something that's out of our control. You can look up at the stars and wonder what the aliens out there are thinking about how crazy we are down here that Donald Trump was president and could be president again. You know what I mean?

MARY

Let's not ruin it.

TARA

I know, right? There are all kinds of things you can find humor in. Like I said, I'm a Jersey girl. I go down the Shore. That's my happy place domestically. I grew up going down the Shore as a kid—go down the Shore, read a book. I love Mariah Carey and I read her autobiography on the beach last year when I needed to take a break from politics. Sometimes you need to just take a break, lay on the beach or by a lake or on a boat and just chill out. And there's nothing wrong with that.

MARY

Nothing at all. And you can find nature anywhere. I live in Manhattan. Stargazing not so much unless we have a blackout.

TARA

But you can go to the planetarium.

MARY

Yes, the Hayden Planetarium is awesome. There are parks everywhere. You can hug a tree. You can go by the water. Have a picnic. Well, not right now, it's a little cold right now. But it's really good advice because wherever you go, there you are. And we have to make the most of it.

Tara, thank you so much. You make me feel better about things. It's just been such a pleasure to catch up with you. Have an amazing vacation. Happy New Year, and we will definitely touch base and let's get this thing done in 2024.

TARA

Thank you, Mary. We love you at Lincoln Project. You're a huge friend of the organization. I love you and everything that you're doing, and let's kick ass and carry on in 2024, my friend.

MARY

Fabulous. I love you too.

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