Our local gifted program is really just about academic achievement, not how kids can learn very differently. And there's no way he wouldn't suffer in school. Three separate professionals have told us to keep homeschooling him. He has friends and is physically active and understands and though I have taught him to think independently as best I can, he still would vote the same way I do.
Our local gifted program is really just about academic achievement, not how kids can learn very differently. And there's no way he wouldn't suffer in school. Three separate professionals have told us to keep homeschooling him. He has friends and is physically active and understands and though I have taught him to think independently as best I can, he still would vote the same way I do.
Mary, academics are somewhat important for Gifted students and should be available through the regular school curricula (AP classes, etc.). However any Gifted Support Program should be more. It should have all kinds of opportunities for students to explore their own exceptionalities, their uniquenesses, and help them find ways to make the most of them. Oh wait, shouldn't all students have those opportunities. We have become so obsessed with "academics" that we have neglected the really important skills, like learning to live together in our diversity, performing basic living skills like dealing with taxes, general personal finance, basic home repairs, shopping intelligently, dealing with media of all kinds to see what is real, etc. One can learn most of the basic academics as they learn the skills for living an effective life. Gifted students will most likely learn all of that more quickly, but might need help slowing down just long enough to be sure they got all the steps. Students also need skills for managing their physical and mental health, communicating effectively, and deeply critically reading and thinking. Reading, Math, Science, and Social Studies can be tied to all these subjects and more, and should be.
Please don’t forget the arts. Music, in particular is a method to increase learning capacity by opening new pathways in the brain. The earlier music is taught, the better.
Sharon, you are so right, and I should definitely have included music in my comment. I am a musician and did share music with my students often, encouraging them to join in, music from different places and times. It really does make a difference. I remember learning the 50 states when i was in school, with a song made famous by Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians, "Fifty Nifty United States." It has helped me to not only have a good sense of the nation, but also to teach my students more effectively about this nation. Our schools dropped music for about a decade due to lack of funding and it made a negative difference. I taught in one of the most disadvantaged districts in my state. Just to give you an idea of what it was like. In my 26 years teaching there, we probably had about 15 different administrations, each with their own idea of what the schools should be doing, each tossing out a lot of what predecessors had put into place. However, we had an amazing staff of teachers at all levels. One really had to want to teach under such challenging conditions to be there and we worked really hard and loved our students and families, and wanted the best for them. Most of my Gifted students went on to college. Those that did not couldn't afford to go, even to local community colleges because of lack of funds, even with scholarships. Six of my students won Gates scholarships that enabled them to attend college through Master's Degree free. One of those students returned to our district to teach, and his students love him. Music is back, but not nearly at the level it used to be present. Our high school used to win band competitions and now we don't even have a band, again due to lack of funds. Music and art are as critical to a child's education as any other subject, even if the child does not have particular skill in those subjects. They, as you say, impact our brains and I believe help us to be more human and humane since music and art are universal.
So well written, true. I find it interesting that so many very very intelligent people in specific areas also have a lack of skills in other very normal relationships with people. Different brain matter.
Oh, I know. I've been through a lot myself. Our local school pretty much just opens AP classes to kids a couple of years younger than they would normally. My own kid would still struggle with those, though. Being gifted and having high academic potential have overlap, but not entirely.
Mary, that is where a good Gifted Support program and well-trained special education professionals would have helped. In our high school, we had an actual math special education teacher, for example, teaching the Gifted students as well as regular ed and special education students who think and learn differently. She has tremendous success with those students because she can work with them from basic addition to calculus, depending on what they need. I know she is unique, but I also know things could be better in all schools if We the People were to elect representatives who actually care about our children, not just the rich white ones who have no serious learning differences, and if we could entice more talented young people to enter the field of education. It is a terrific profession which should provide a good living for those who work in it. Also, respect for teachers, staff, and the families who are involved with public schools would go a long way too.
What makes you think rich white people have kids with no serious learning disabilities? Seriously, you are correct in thinking that well to do areas, just upper middle class, will have a certain mind set and blindness to what others go through daily. Education is very rewarding work. The problem here at least in Calif is that you have to get a Master's Degree in so many districts now. That means at least 5 years of college and then a half year training with no salary in the classroom. My daughter tried to get her loans dispersed by teaching in what we call a Title One school as promised by the loan makers. She did this but it never happened, she is still responsible for her loans. That is why, in our state, teacher pay doesn't commiserate what other 5 1/2 year training programs result in as far as income goes. There are going to have to be incentives, and truthfully, even the YMCA is sucking dry the school system funds by offering Home School classes here. The voucher system is making public education esp. hard to finance. That is super discouraging, and the online and home school advocates do not have to have formal training or other knowledge related to the law and teaching in California. If you are doing your own homeschooling you don't worry about that either, nor does the Y. This is degrading our public education system by starving it out.
Meridee, of course, rich people have children with all kinds of learning differences. Even Donald Trump has a son who has learning differences. The difference is that those people can usually afford the special schools that can address the needs of those rich people's children while public schools rarely get the resources to do that even in rich districts. I am sorry to learn that even California does not pay teachers well and permits just anyone to home school, and not even in a home. In a sense those folks are setting up a school, just not calling it that. The whole voucher scam is appalling and seems to help only the rich parents who abuse the privilege or the private/religious schools that get a whole lot of taxpayer money when our nation was set up and developed a separation of church and state. I am sorry about teachers who have not been able to get student loans relieved even when working in disadvantaged districts and schools. There is supposed to be a federal program for that, but alas, our Supreme Court is composed of 6 privileged conservatives who don't seem to want to help anyone but Trump and rich white people and corporations. We do need incentives to help teachers pay for training, then to teach, a very difficult job, but a really rewarding one if not accompanied by the stress of trying to make ends meet.
That was the case with a bunch of the kids we volunteered with, too—one (who is now a history and gender studies professor) was put in a "special school" where they DEMANDED they handwrite everything, and couldn't hack that because their handwriting was so bad.
We finally managed to persuade their Mom to homeschool them instead—it probably helped that my ex hired them as an intern for a couple years until college....
Dr Darke, it is nice when parents can home school, but that is not an option for most families. The truth is that not everyone can teach and that most parents need to work, both parents if there are two or more. We all need to work to get our public schools to do better in preparing our children for the world. Educators often know how to do it, but there are a lot of roadblocks to getting the information out to parents and children as well as teachers. How often are educators, educators in the classrooms, homes, and other places where children are successfully taught, consulted for any school-related projects. Parents often have an overloud voice in discussions as do school administrators, but in my experience, teachers are rarely consulted, just ordered to follow through with any decisions. Everyone working together could change this and things will improve for our kids.
We 100% support public schools, both verbally and with our property taxes. It's just that they aren't right for my own kid, and they need a lot of support to get better.
Think about where those vouchers come from. They do come from your taxes too. Your taxes, be nice if everyone could work together. Public schools in Calif have extensive services for special needs. We need to build them up not dilute them. We need to pay our teachers more. I hear Finland has some of the best education in the world, and free college.
If you are in Calif. legally your district has to make accommodation for your child's needs. Parents only need to ask. Sometimes persistently. But that is your right. I wish you the best. Go to your district website there should be contact numbers to get you started.
I don't want to hijack the conversation in the main post about this, but I am real clear on my rights within the school district. I'm sure some people aren't. I am extremely clear on how much better homeschool works for him. I am still completely puzzled about why people want to change my mind on this one.
I don't think it's personal I think it's more of a wide ranging discussion on the pros and cons. Certainly you know your son and can communicate with him well. I have always thought as long as social needs are met too so they can relate to other humans then you are good. Most people do rely on that in the public school for their kids, as they do for babysitting...it's a fact.
Mary, I am sad public school was not right for your child, but am glad you can provide the assistance he needs. It is also a gift that you are a good teacher which is really important. I wish you all the best. Maybe one day, our schools will actually be as broad as necessary in providing appropriate education for all our children in their diversity. That would be wonderful!
Nice reply Ruth. My neighbor has a gifted son who has those different social skills and does not find school doable. In her case she has chosen to home school after he began the school year.
Her daughter attends a district school. He's a very controlling kiddo and he gets his way. I do not see this scenario as requiring special needs assistance though, this is a choice. Perhaps a parenting fail. Sometimes I think he needs to tough it out like the rest of us did, supposedly we have extra funding to hire more counselors for kids like this. Lots of kids have anger issues too and need to be taught coping skills. Lots of times those issues arise because of stuff at home, these counselors also help the parents get help, it's a form of facilitation for those who need it. Social services sometimes are involved. We are sensitive to being proactive in addressing problems before they become bigger. I'm just throwing this out there as it seems a lot of parents are letting their kids make decisions at a young age that aren't always in their own best interest.
Well, I would agree that getting public schools to do better is a priority—but I'm in my late Sixties, and apparently they haven't improved significantly from when *I* was in school in the 1960s and early 1970s! My youngest brother, the last time we were all together, told my then-wife and I about how their school wanted to put his daughter on Ritalin to "calm her down in class"—something they did to HIM when he was a kid, because their diagnosis was that he was both Hyper and "slow". The Ritalin calmed him down, all right—it also masked that he didn't have substandard intelligence, he was dyslexic and that's why he had so much trouble with written assignments! (Let's hear it for American Public Education, folks!) We didn't find this out until his was in his mid-teens, after Mom put him on a diet without processed foods and sugar—between my teen years and his, Mom had gotten into eating healthier and lost 150 lbs., and since he still lived at home he ate what Mom did.
The problem with public schools, especially in America, is that they're a Procrustean Bed—you're kid's not smart enough? Put them in Remedial Ed! Your kid's too smart and gets bored easily? Put them in Remedial Ed, too! That's what they did to me in the 1960s, and American Public Education is still pretty much doing the same thing....
Even if you perfected Public Schools, though, they're not going to be able to handle the kids who are both gifted and dyslexic, dysgraphic, or dyscalculic. Unless class sizes are reduced to one-on-one, or at most one-on-three, teachers are just going to teach to the majority and...the minority can just sink or swim. That's why you need to accept homeschooling, or if you can't manage homeschooling (and yes, I know most family are two-income these days) educational systems that CAN help those kids who don't nicely conform to the teachers' expectations.
Dr Darke, when were you last in a public school, say in a class in which you had trouble, to see what things are really like today? Things are very different now in most schools and for the better. The one thing from the past I wish we still had is flexibility so teachers could pursue with children all sorts of student interests. Some teachers are trying to reintroduce those aspects to their classrooms, but as long as standardized testing is required by law, it is much harder to diversify and meet the needs of all or most students.
Are you talking about Calif Schools cause I find you are uninformed on the great emphasis they put on educating all learners. There is not a black and white.
Tell that to my niece, the one they tried to fill full of Ritalin....
Hell, tell that to my baby brother, who they DID fill full of Ritalin for about a decade!
California's educational standards went from being some of the best in the nation in the 1970s to the bottom half of the country's now, thanks in no small part to NeoLiberalism's decoupling of property taxes and education. Less money for schools meant less quality education, and Bill Gates-funded "reforms" like "Common Core" which try to outlaw fiction in schools because Gates doesn't understand it and therefore it must be wrong(!) just make matters worse. (I know several SF and fantasy authors, including former teachers, who believe the only thing Common Core will accomplish is making kids HATE school more than they do now.)
I'm sure you have other ideas, probably all in praise of all STEM, all the time. So go ahead and tell my brother and niece, and me, that we're all wrong, and you're completely right, because that's exactly what you're coming off like.
They bend over backwards and do not suggest Ritalin ever, that would be illegal. That has to come from a Dr. after a thorough evaluation. But yeah, my own son was gifted, dysgraphic and dyslexic. If computers had come along about 10 years earlier he would have flown! I relate as they wanted to special day class him. I taught that subject at Jr. High level later in 2008, what a mixed bag of kids. We spent a lot of time just socializing behavior. We had the luxury of a more individualized curriculum and could add interesting enrichment that was fun for everyone in the class, high or low. Some kids take comfort in that scenario so don't knock it till you've tried it. Unfortunately though for my son in the 70's it wasn't that way either, and the stigma of having your kid placed differently was more than most parents could stomach. We have certainly changed our attitudes as a society and more sophisticated views on those classes now I hope. Public Ed has come a long way. My biggest gripe is the loss of "shop classes" they were, in a way, a place for the hands on learners which you can't replicate on a computer. It gave the kids who can't sit all day a relief. We have really sophisticated culinary classes, art and music in our district. I hate to see people paint a subject all black or white.
Meridee, It was a tough time in the 1970s for kids who saw and understood differently. I got my degree in Gifted Education in 1978 and saw some of the challenges because many parents, particularly in the Black community were worried about having their children in Gifted Support because it would have made them targets of kids who did not value education. We don't have that so much now, but what I and other teachers see is parents who believe their child has no differences that should be addressed, particularly children with autism. That is sad because we know from a lot of research and efforts, children with autism can often thrive if assisted to find the ways they learn and give them support as they use those learning approaches to work for them. I was lucky to have a visually impaired father who showed me that even if one doesn't have vision at the level of other children, that should not get in the way of learning and participating. That is the way I still function as a now, totally blind adult. So many blind and visually impaired people I have worked with over the years somehow learned they couldn't see, so they had nothing to offer anyone. I know teachers didn't teach that, but we learn from more than classroom instruction. My Gifted Support students came to sessions with me that were very much enrichment, challenge, and looking at the world in different ways to see where they would fit in and could make a difference. I would love to see all children believing and acting on the fact that they can make a positive difference, no matter their physical, emotional, or thinking differences. We could do this for our precious kids if we as a society cared enough.
Less money for war, more money for educating us to learn to get along? To care for our kids enough to give them the best info for the rest of their lives? To make them life long learners!
::They bend over backwards and do not suggest Ritalin ever, that would be illegal. That has to come from a Dr. after a thorough evaluation.::
That was neither my nor my youngest brother's experience—being treated by the educational system like Pink Monkeys WAS.
So pardon me if I'm less than sanguine about public schools and how they handle "special needs" children, no matter in what direction the "special needs" are....
Today's educator would be sued for suggesting that to a parent. It is not done now. I am not kidding around here. People are sue happy and somehow blame public schools for everything that doesn't make their child a winner! So, we try very hard to remain positive in today's classroom, or if fortunate enough have a school counselor who can do some preliminary assessment no matter what the need and get with a parent to have it addressed. So often the parents are also the problem. It is really hard too when you are a parent looking at a very young new teacher and even listening to what they have to say, and I will say, some are over confident but it doesn't take long for them to learn humility in the real world. Another reason, no respect, is causing a frightening number of new teachers to leave the profession before 5 years in. Student loans and lots of college work, it's a calling to teach. Let go of the past.
You keep trying to tell me I didn't experience what I experienced, and to "Let go of the past"?
Fine. When you start wondering why otherwise decent parents don't trust teachers any more, remember that you didn't *bother* to listen to what I told you happened to me and my family....
I did write a reply to explain to you that I too experienced the 70's. Then I taught in 2008, special day class and went back to learn how to reteach. It is totally different. The 70's was over 50 years ago.
My hands are damaged from two decades of medication-resistant rheumatoid disease and I struggle with writing legibly anymore. One of the best things that has happened for my kid was that when he was struggling to write neatly in a form, I pointed out that we both have disabilities that affect handwriting. Mine is because of my joints, physics essentially. His is because of the way his brain connects to the parts of his body used for writing. The look on his face was still overwhelming to me when I think about it. All brains are different, all bodies are different. Our difficulties vary but we all have difficulties. It changed his worldview to know that.
Mary, wouldn't it be great if we could get the message out to everyone that differences can be great and that it is our diversity that can help us to be an incredibly innovative nation. Change is happening and if we could get adequate funding for our real public schools, all our children would benefit.
Some kids do better at home. Has a lot to do with personality and special gifts. I will say the hardest part about teaching in a public school is when the kids have no respect for teachers as their parents have no respect for education. Discipline is very limited in nature and having kids in the class with no regard for the fact that they are making it impossible for other kids to learn the lesson is misery. For everyone. Private schools can kick them out. Or parents have the option, as they did with Donald Trump, to send them to a military academy If they are so impossible. (that translates to rich kids in correction mode).
Meridee, I am sure some kids can do better at home particularly if their parent is an educator. Others, not so much. A really bright parent of one of my students decided to try home schooling and set everything up in her house. That lasted about 6 months. She and the family moved to another district where her child was accepted into a magnet school where she did quite well. It would be great if all public schools and districts had sufficient resources to offer children and their families, interesting and appropriate options. Also, every school should have at least one behavior specialist who can work with those students who are disruptive, to help find the right setting and behavior incentives to make school a positive experience for them and the rest of the students. If there were a wil, we could do this!
My daughter worked in the capacity of behavior specialist at a Jr. High and an elementary school. What she found in her lower socioeconomic schools were parents in gangs who had kids who suffered from anger issues due to loss, fear, and neglect. This is the direction our publics schools are headed, this is a big need area. In this instance, the work was so demoralizing, not because of the results she had with kids but because of the really antagonistic people at the administrative level who resented even providing a room for her to use, as a district employee, not a teacher at the school. She moved on when it was announced by the district that her program was not being funded after the next year. She had no choice. I still don''t understand what happened and have trouble with the Calif. Legislature for putting a carrot on a stick and then eating it themselves. The district completely absorbed their community centered niche, put three people out of work who were dedicated for three years, to run other school programs, which with a grant is technically illegal, so you see the frustrations. The state was moving in the right direction, hopefully not all districts mess up like hers did. As you can see this is new ground in a lot of areas. It is shakey ground too.
Meridee, wow, it seems things are not all that different between CA and PA. For a few years, we did have behavior specialists who worked with our students who are struggling with anger, fear, impulse control, etc. They worked with teachers to help with classroom management too, and our schools improved significantly in all areas. Just as you describe, their jobs were eliminated. A couple of them became "climate managers" in schools. Some of the duties overlapped, but the behavior support was the part usually dropped. I have heard relatively often these days from a variety of sources that there is a movement to keep an under-class in this nation so they can do the jobs "nobody else wants to do" and will have to do them because that is all the work they will be qualified for. And a bonus, fewer immigrants can be allowed in. I am thinking those saying this may be on the right track. Those targeted are mostly people of color and poor white children. I guess they want to be sure the project is not seen as racist and xenophobic as it actually is. I am sorry your daughter couldn't continue her work because I know it made a difference. I saw how that work counts. You must be truly proud that your daughter chose such a challenging field and worked so hard to make a positive difference. Kudos to her!
I'm so proud of my girl she is very dedicated and good at what she does. Agree about the keeping people down thing. It only produces anger and I think we are better than that. Unfortunately that anger exists. We could be doing what our white neighbors do and drive our granddaughter to a predominantly white Jr. High. My daughter believes in being the change she wants to see and has our granddaughter attending our assigned school which is predominantly Latino. She is blonde. She is not happy experiencing racism herself. It seems cruel to me to expect her to go there because of that. She already suffered through an elementary school situation like that. But the kids were younger and nicer. We are at a crossroads, the district offers an independent learning environment, it's 4 days with independent study and 1 day a week where they show up in class and have to show work, see what's next, etc. It may be how we finish Jr. High. I am so glad our district offers this option. So school funds stay where they should and everyone should be happy.
Our local gifted program is really just about academic achievement, not how kids can learn very differently. And there's no way he wouldn't suffer in school. Three separate professionals have told us to keep homeschooling him. He has friends and is physically active and understands and though I have taught him to think independently as best I can, he still would vote the same way I do.
Mary, academics are somewhat important for Gifted students and should be available through the regular school curricula (AP classes, etc.). However any Gifted Support Program should be more. It should have all kinds of opportunities for students to explore their own exceptionalities, their uniquenesses, and help them find ways to make the most of them. Oh wait, shouldn't all students have those opportunities. We have become so obsessed with "academics" that we have neglected the really important skills, like learning to live together in our diversity, performing basic living skills like dealing with taxes, general personal finance, basic home repairs, shopping intelligently, dealing with media of all kinds to see what is real, etc. One can learn most of the basic academics as they learn the skills for living an effective life. Gifted students will most likely learn all of that more quickly, but might need help slowing down just long enough to be sure they got all the steps. Students also need skills for managing their physical and mental health, communicating effectively, and deeply critically reading and thinking. Reading, Math, Science, and Social Studies can be tied to all these subjects and more, and should be.
Please don’t forget the arts. Music, in particular is a method to increase learning capacity by opening new pathways in the brain. The earlier music is taught, the better.
Sharon, you are so right, and I should definitely have included music in my comment. I am a musician and did share music with my students often, encouraging them to join in, music from different places and times. It really does make a difference. I remember learning the 50 states when i was in school, with a song made famous by Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians, "Fifty Nifty United States." It has helped me to not only have a good sense of the nation, but also to teach my students more effectively about this nation. Our schools dropped music for about a decade due to lack of funding and it made a negative difference. I taught in one of the most disadvantaged districts in my state. Just to give you an idea of what it was like. In my 26 years teaching there, we probably had about 15 different administrations, each with their own idea of what the schools should be doing, each tossing out a lot of what predecessors had put into place. However, we had an amazing staff of teachers at all levels. One really had to want to teach under such challenging conditions to be there and we worked really hard and loved our students and families, and wanted the best for them. Most of my Gifted students went on to college. Those that did not couldn't afford to go, even to local community colleges because of lack of funds, even with scholarships. Six of my students won Gates scholarships that enabled them to attend college through Master's Degree free. One of those students returned to our district to teach, and his students love him. Music is back, but not nearly at the level it used to be present. Our high school used to win band competitions and now we don't even have a band, again due to lack of funds. Music and art are as critical to a child's education as any other subject, even if the child does not have particular skill in those subjects. They, as you say, impact our brains and I believe help us to be more human and humane since music and art are universal.
So well written, true. I find it interesting that so many very very intelligent people in specific areas also have a lack of skills in other very normal relationships with people. Different brain matter.
Oh, I know. I've been through a lot myself. Our local school pretty much just opens AP classes to kids a couple of years younger than they would normally. My own kid would still struggle with those, though. Being gifted and having high academic potential have overlap, but not entirely.
Mary, that is where a good Gifted Support program and well-trained special education professionals would have helped. In our high school, we had an actual math special education teacher, for example, teaching the Gifted students as well as regular ed and special education students who think and learn differently. She has tremendous success with those students because she can work with them from basic addition to calculus, depending on what they need. I know she is unique, but I also know things could be better in all schools if We the People were to elect representatives who actually care about our children, not just the rich white ones who have no serious learning differences, and if we could entice more talented young people to enter the field of education. It is a terrific profession which should provide a good living for those who work in it. Also, respect for teachers, staff, and the families who are involved with public schools would go a long way too.
What makes you think rich white people have kids with no serious learning disabilities? Seriously, you are correct in thinking that well to do areas, just upper middle class, will have a certain mind set and blindness to what others go through daily. Education is very rewarding work. The problem here at least in Calif is that you have to get a Master's Degree in so many districts now. That means at least 5 years of college and then a half year training with no salary in the classroom. My daughter tried to get her loans dispersed by teaching in what we call a Title One school as promised by the loan makers. She did this but it never happened, she is still responsible for her loans. That is why, in our state, teacher pay doesn't commiserate what other 5 1/2 year training programs result in as far as income goes. There are going to have to be incentives, and truthfully, even the YMCA is sucking dry the school system funds by offering Home School classes here. The voucher system is making public education esp. hard to finance. That is super discouraging, and the online and home school advocates do not have to have formal training or other knowledge related to the law and teaching in California. If you are doing your own homeschooling you don't worry about that either, nor does the Y. This is degrading our public education system by starving it out.
Meridee, of course, rich people have children with all kinds of learning differences. Even Donald Trump has a son who has learning differences. The difference is that those people can usually afford the special schools that can address the needs of those rich people's children while public schools rarely get the resources to do that even in rich districts. I am sorry to learn that even California does not pay teachers well and permits just anyone to home school, and not even in a home. In a sense those folks are setting up a school, just not calling it that. The whole voucher scam is appalling and seems to help only the rich parents who abuse the privilege or the private/religious schools that get a whole lot of taxpayer money when our nation was set up and developed a separation of church and state. I am sorry about teachers who have not been able to get student loans relieved even when working in disadvantaged districts and schools. There is supposed to be a federal program for that, but alas, our Supreme Court is composed of 6 privileged conservatives who don't seem to want to help anyone but Trump and rich white people and corporations. We do need incentives to help teachers pay for training, then to teach, a very difficult job, but a really rewarding one if not accompanied by the stress of trying to make ends meet.
I agree.
That was the case with a bunch of the kids we volunteered with, too—one (who is now a history and gender studies professor) was put in a "special school" where they DEMANDED they handwrite everything, and couldn't hack that because their handwriting was so bad.
We finally managed to persuade their Mom to homeschool them instead—it probably helped that my ex hired them as an intern for a couple years until college....
Dr Darke, it is nice when parents can home school, but that is not an option for most families. The truth is that not everyone can teach and that most parents need to work, both parents if there are two or more. We all need to work to get our public schools to do better in preparing our children for the world. Educators often know how to do it, but there are a lot of roadblocks to getting the information out to parents and children as well as teachers. How often are educators, educators in the classrooms, homes, and other places where children are successfully taught, consulted for any school-related projects. Parents often have an overloud voice in discussions as do school administrators, but in my experience, teachers are rarely consulted, just ordered to follow through with any decisions. Everyone working together could change this and things will improve for our kids.
We 100% support public schools, both verbally and with our property taxes. It's just that they aren't right for my own kid, and they need a lot of support to get better.
Think about where those vouchers come from. They do come from your taxes too. Your taxes, be nice if everyone could work together. Public schools in Calif have extensive services for special needs. We need to build them up not dilute them. We need to pay our teachers more. I hear Finland has some of the best education in the world, and free college.
What vouchers? Oh those vouchers. I don't pay attention to them other than to vote against them.
I would love it if you would explain to me which special needs my local schools have that would help my kid. They don't seem to be visible.
If you are in Calif. legally your district has to make accommodation for your child's needs. Parents only need to ask. Sometimes persistently. But that is your right. I wish you the best. Go to your district website there should be contact numbers to get you started.
I don't want to hijack the conversation in the main post about this, but I am real clear on my rights within the school district. I'm sure some people aren't. I am extremely clear on how much better homeschool works for him. I am still completely puzzled about why people want to change my mind on this one.
I don't think it's personal I think it's more of a wide ranging discussion on the pros and cons. Certainly you know your son and can communicate with him well. I have always thought as long as social needs are met too so they can relate to other humans then you are good. Most people do rely on that in the public school for their kids, as they do for babysitting...it's a fact.
Arg, I was replying to two different posts here and I want to be able to delete or edit it but it's very too deep.
Mary, I am sad public school was not right for your child, but am glad you can provide the assistance he needs. It is also a gift that you are a good teacher which is really important. I wish you all the best. Maybe one day, our schools will actually be as broad as necessary in providing appropriate education for all our children in their diversity. That would be wonderful!
Nice reply Ruth. My neighbor has a gifted son who has those different social skills and does not find school doable. In her case she has chosen to home school after he began the school year.
Her daughter attends a district school. He's a very controlling kiddo and he gets his way. I do not see this scenario as requiring special needs assistance though, this is a choice. Perhaps a parenting fail. Sometimes I think he needs to tough it out like the rest of us did, supposedly we have extra funding to hire more counselors for kids like this. Lots of kids have anger issues too and need to be taught coping skills. Lots of times those issues arise because of stuff at home, these counselors also help the parents get help, it's a form of facilitation for those who need it. Social services sometimes are involved. We are sensitive to being proactive in addressing problems before they become bigger. I'm just throwing this out there as it seems a lot of parents are letting their kids make decisions at a young age that aren't always in their own best interest.
Well, I would agree that getting public schools to do better is a priority—but I'm in my late Sixties, and apparently they haven't improved significantly from when *I* was in school in the 1960s and early 1970s! My youngest brother, the last time we were all together, told my then-wife and I about how their school wanted to put his daughter on Ritalin to "calm her down in class"—something they did to HIM when he was a kid, because their diagnosis was that he was both Hyper and "slow". The Ritalin calmed him down, all right—it also masked that he didn't have substandard intelligence, he was dyslexic and that's why he had so much trouble with written assignments! (Let's hear it for American Public Education, folks!) We didn't find this out until his was in his mid-teens, after Mom put him on a diet without processed foods and sugar—between my teen years and his, Mom had gotten into eating healthier and lost 150 lbs., and since he still lived at home he ate what Mom did.
The problem with public schools, especially in America, is that they're a Procrustean Bed—you're kid's not smart enough? Put them in Remedial Ed! Your kid's too smart and gets bored easily? Put them in Remedial Ed, too! That's what they did to me in the 1960s, and American Public Education is still pretty much doing the same thing....
Even if you perfected Public Schools, though, they're not going to be able to handle the kids who are both gifted and dyslexic, dysgraphic, or dyscalculic. Unless class sizes are reduced to one-on-one, or at most one-on-three, teachers are just going to teach to the majority and...the minority can just sink or swim. That's why you need to accept homeschooling, or if you can't manage homeschooling (and yes, I know most family are two-income these days) educational systems that CAN help those kids who don't nicely conform to the teachers' expectations.
Dr Darke, when were you last in a public school, say in a class in which you had trouble, to see what things are really like today? Things are very different now in most schools and for the better. The one thing from the past I wish we still had is flexibility so teachers could pursue with children all sorts of student interests. Some teachers are trying to reintroduce those aspects to their classrooms, but as long as standardized testing is required by law, it is much harder to diversify and meet the needs of all or most students.
I'm telling you what MY experience with public education was, and what the kids I volunteered with's experiences were.
Public education is necessary, but there also needs to be an option for those kids who public education can't (or won't) help.
Are you talking about Calif Schools cause I find you are uninformed on the great emphasis they put on educating all learners. There is not a black and white.
Tell that to my niece, the one they tried to fill full of Ritalin....
Hell, tell that to my baby brother, who they DID fill full of Ritalin for about a decade!
California's educational standards went from being some of the best in the nation in the 1970s to the bottom half of the country's now, thanks in no small part to NeoLiberalism's decoupling of property taxes and education. Less money for schools meant less quality education, and Bill Gates-funded "reforms" like "Common Core" which try to outlaw fiction in schools because Gates doesn't understand it and therefore it must be wrong(!) just make matters worse. (I know several SF and fantasy authors, including former teachers, who believe the only thing Common Core will accomplish is making kids HATE school more than they do now.)
I'm sure you have other ideas, probably all in praise of all STEM, all the time. So go ahead and tell my brother and niece, and me, that we're all wrong, and you're completely right, because that's exactly what you're coming off like.
They bend over backwards and do not suggest Ritalin ever, that would be illegal. That has to come from a Dr. after a thorough evaluation. But yeah, my own son was gifted, dysgraphic and dyslexic. If computers had come along about 10 years earlier he would have flown! I relate as they wanted to special day class him. I taught that subject at Jr. High level later in 2008, what a mixed bag of kids. We spent a lot of time just socializing behavior. We had the luxury of a more individualized curriculum and could add interesting enrichment that was fun for everyone in the class, high or low. Some kids take comfort in that scenario so don't knock it till you've tried it. Unfortunately though for my son in the 70's it wasn't that way either, and the stigma of having your kid placed differently was more than most parents could stomach. We have certainly changed our attitudes as a society and more sophisticated views on those classes now I hope. Public Ed has come a long way. My biggest gripe is the loss of "shop classes" they were, in a way, a place for the hands on learners which you can't replicate on a computer. It gave the kids who can't sit all day a relief. We have really sophisticated culinary classes, art and music in our district. I hate to see people paint a subject all black or white.
Meridee, It was a tough time in the 1970s for kids who saw and understood differently. I got my degree in Gifted Education in 1978 and saw some of the challenges because many parents, particularly in the Black community were worried about having their children in Gifted Support because it would have made them targets of kids who did not value education. We don't have that so much now, but what I and other teachers see is parents who believe their child has no differences that should be addressed, particularly children with autism. That is sad because we know from a lot of research and efforts, children with autism can often thrive if assisted to find the ways they learn and give them support as they use those learning approaches to work for them. I was lucky to have a visually impaired father who showed me that even if one doesn't have vision at the level of other children, that should not get in the way of learning and participating. That is the way I still function as a now, totally blind adult. So many blind and visually impaired people I have worked with over the years somehow learned they couldn't see, so they had nothing to offer anyone. I know teachers didn't teach that, but we learn from more than classroom instruction. My Gifted Support students came to sessions with me that were very much enrichment, challenge, and looking at the world in different ways to see where they would fit in and could make a difference. I would love to see all children believing and acting on the fact that they can make a positive difference, no matter their physical, emotional, or thinking differences. We could do this for our precious kids if we as a society cared enough.
Less money for war, more money for educating us to learn to get along? To care for our kids enough to give them the best info for the rest of their lives? To make them life long learners!
::They bend over backwards and do not suggest Ritalin ever, that would be illegal. That has to come from a Dr. after a thorough evaluation.::
That was neither my nor my youngest brother's experience—being treated by the educational system like Pink Monkeys WAS.
So pardon me if I'm less than sanguine about public schools and how they handle "special needs" children, no matter in what direction the "special needs" are....
Today's educator would be sued for suggesting that to a parent. It is not done now. I am not kidding around here. People are sue happy and somehow blame public schools for everything that doesn't make their child a winner! So, we try very hard to remain positive in today's classroom, or if fortunate enough have a school counselor who can do some preliminary assessment no matter what the need and get with a parent to have it addressed. So often the parents are also the problem. It is really hard too when you are a parent looking at a very young new teacher and even listening to what they have to say, and I will say, some are over confident but it doesn't take long for them to learn humility in the real world. Another reason, no respect, is causing a frightening number of new teachers to leave the profession before 5 years in. Student loans and lots of college work, it's a calling to teach. Let go of the past.
You keep trying to tell me I didn't experience what I experienced, and to "Let go of the past"?
Fine. When you start wondering why otherwise decent parents don't trust teachers any more, remember that you didn't *bother* to listen to what I told you happened to me and my family....
I did write a reply to explain to you that I too experienced the 70's. Then I taught in 2008, special day class and went back to learn how to reteach. It is totally different. The 70's was over 50 years ago.
My hands are damaged from two decades of medication-resistant rheumatoid disease and I struggle with writing legibly anymore. One of the best things that has happened for my kid was that when he was struggling to write neatly in a form, I pointed out that we both have disabilities that affect handwriting. Mine is because of my joints, physics essentially. His is because of the way his brain connects to the parts of his body used for writing. The look on his face was still overwhelming to me when I think about it. All brains are different, all bodies are different. Our difficulties vary but we all have difficulties. It changed his worldview to know that.
Mary, wouldn't it be great if we could get the message out to everyone that differences can be great and that it is our diversity that can help us to be an incredibly innovative nation. Change is happening and if we could get adequate funding for our real public schools, all our children would benefit.
Some kids do better at home. Has a lot to do with personality and special gifts. I will say the hardest part about teaching in a public school is when the kids have no respect for teachers as their parents have no respect for education. Discipline is very limited in nature and having kids in the class with no regard for the fact that they are making it impossible for other kids to learn the lesson is misery. For everyone. Private schools can kick them out. Or parents have the option, as they did with Donald Trump, to send them to a military academy If they are so impossible. (that translates to rich kids in correction mode).
Meridee, I am sure some kids can do better at home particularly if their parent is an educator. Others, not so much. A really bright parent of one of my students decided to try home schooling and set everything up in her house. That lasted about 6 months. She and the family moved to another district where her child was accepted into a magnet school where she did quite well. It would be great if all public schools and districts had sufficient resources to offer children and their families, interesting and appropriate options. Also, every school should have at least one behavior specialist who can work with those students who are disruptive, to help find the right setting and behavior incentives to make school a positive experience for them and the rest of the students. If there were a wil, we could do this!
My daughter worked in the capacity of behavior specialist at a Jr. High and an elementary school. What she found in her lower socioeconomic schools were parents in gangs who had kids who suffered from anger issues due to loss, fear, and neglect. This is the direction our publics schools are headed, this is a big need area. In this instance, the work was so demoralizing, not because of the results she had with kids but because of the really antagonistic people at the administrative level who resented even providing a room for her to use, as a district employee, not a teacher at the school. She moved on when it was announced by the district that her program was not being funded after the next year. She had no choice. I still don''t understand what happened and have trouble with the Calif. Legislature for putting a carrot on a stick and then eating it themselves. The district completely absorbed their community centered niche, put three people out of work who were dedicated for three years, to run other school programs, which with a grant is technically illegal, so you see the frustrations. The state was moving in the right direction, hopefully not all districts mess up like hers did. As you can see this is new ground in a lot of areas. It is shakey ground too.
Meridee, wow, it seems things are not all that different between CA and PA. For a few years, we did have behavior specialists who worked with our students who are struggling with anger, fear, impulse control, etc. They worked with teachers to help with classroom management too, and our schools improved significantly in all areas. Just as you describe, their jobs were eliminated. A couple of them became "climate managers" in schools. Some of the duties overlapped, but the behavior support was the part usually dropped. I have heard relatively often these days from a variety of sources that there is a movement to keep an under-class in this nation so they can do the jobs "nobody else wants to do" and will have to do them because that is all the work they will be qualified for. And a bonus, fewer immigrants can be allowed in. I am thinking those saying this may be on the right track. Those targeted are mostly people of color and poor white children. I guess they want to be sure the project is not seen as racist and xenophobic as it actually is. I am sorry your daughter couldn't continue her work because I know it made a difference. I saw how that work counts. You must be truly proud that your daughter chose such a challenging field and worked so hard to make a positive difference. Kudos to her!
I'm so proud of my girl she is very dedicated and good at what she does. Agree about the keeping people down thing. It only produces anger and I think we are better than that. Unfortunately that anger exists. We could be doing what our white neighbors do and drive our granddaughter to a predominantly white Jr. High. My daughter believes in being the change she wants to see and has our granddaughter attending our assigned school which is predominantly Latino. She is blonde. She is not happy experiencing racism herself. It seems cruel to me to expect her to go there because of that. She already suffered through an elementary school situation like that. But the kids were younger and nicer. We are at a crossroads, the district offers an independent learning environment, it's 4 days with independent study and 1 day a week where they show up in class and have to show work, see what's next, etc. It may be how we finish Jr. High. I am so glad our district offers this option. So school funds stay where they should and everyone should be happy.