This does not surprise me. The behavior of MAGA is deplorable (Hilary was right). It is a cult of constant gaslighting, projection and hate. I choose love, self-respect and empathy.
Putin and Musk and Donald appear to be conspiring to steal from Americans. While the elected trusted protectors of the Nation are arguing about the potty.
Burke, diversion, that's the point and Republicans and their media cohort are really good at it. We are going to have to be aware of their attempts because there will be many and often. We are going to have to learn to call them out for just what they are. Now, let's see, how do we do that again?
Actually, "the potty" is important. Women's public restrooms were hard won. Many formerly male bastions of power used to have only mens restrooms (have you ever seen the film Hidden Figures?). Preventing women from having restrooms to call our own has been a surprisingly powerful means of controlling women. Many of us use restrooms as spaces of consultation and solidarity, since we have so little privacy from men otherwise. There are many good reasons, from safety to privacy and dignity, to honoring cultural mandates for sex segregation for women of various cultures, to keep public restrooms single sex. Fortunately for Congressperson McBride, each office suite has its own washroom. I hope the buildings also have private "family" restrooms so that if the mens room feels hostile, this representative can honor the privacy and dignity of women by not using women's restrooms. We need to keep males out of women's prisons (yes, that's a thing) and DV shelters and sports. To say this doesn't argue that males who don't relate to sex stereotypes shouldn't have access to sports or DV services, just that women's single sex spaces need to be respected. When males who ID as women are there, they are no longer single sex spaces, and we no longer have the privacy and dignity we deserve when we take care of our very female needs.
Burke, you are right. It is pretty childish, dare I say, toddleresque? That is just like their fearful leader they are trying to emulate, Toddler-Trump!
Your insufferable self righteousness high and mighty attitude is why the Dems lost. Keep it up because if you do..your side will never win another national election and I will be laughing at you the whole time.
So Nancy mace thinks she is protecting women because she’s a feminist. She also thinks she is pro-LGBTQ. She is neither. Sarah McBride is a woman. When she enters a women’s restroom, she is not looking to harass or rape other women; she is looking to relieve herself. The argument that trans women want to rape other women is bogus. Trans women are more likely to be harassed than they are to harass. Mace is an attention seeker who is also performatively cruel.
Sarah is my Representative. I’ve proudly voted for her in every contest she’s entered. I’ve never encountered a more committed or competent elected official.
So tweeting 126 times in 24 hours about the ladies room, is "competent and committed" to what, exactly? Hogging the limelight is what she's committed to, and you actually have to do your job, to be considered competent. Check her voting record.
As I understand from women assessed male at birth, the transition process with medical assistance pretty much eliminates the possibility of rape via remaining sex organs, as well as removing desire or anticipation of sexual pleasure from such an attempt. As for assault and battery (rape) that is a whole other matter.
Yes, there are two matters in play here: women who were assessed male at birth as opposed to men disguising themselves as women to prey upon them. We should not impose more hardships on women because of predatory men.
Women are at more risk in their homes from male family members and/or friends. We need to stop making rubbish up about men needing to dress up as women to attack women. Men don’t need to do that because they can already attack women, at their leisure, in the comfort of their own bloody homes!!!!!!
When did you voluntarily give up your hold on reality. People aren’t ‘assessed’ as one sex or another at birth, they are recognised as male or female. By keeping men out of female facilities we are not imposing hardships on women we are protecting them
Your ignorance and bigotry are disgusting. YOUR reality is twisted. Trans people are NOT the biological gender they were born as. They're not masquerading as the opposite gender, trying to invade bathrooms, and most trans people are receiving medical care to transition, at least in blue states. I have a trans child and your stupidity makes me ill. Try educating yourself by actually reading medical science!
If, as it seems, you have read 'ignorance and bigotry' into that past, then better explain your feeling and why, than mirror that to which you supposedly object.
It has long been the conventional and scientific wisdom that there are just two sexes, i.e. male or female and several genders. That distinction is still commonly used. However, there is now contention in science about whether there are only two biological sexes or whether that has come about because of physical characteristics and not taken into account the *natural* and therefore inherent or biological different make up that exists in people truly of different genders
The reality is that aggressive and abusive language of any sort and from any side does not assist understanding or respect but only confuses and hurts.
Given that we are all of one species, i.e. human beings, wouldn't it be preferable for us to see our differences as opportunities rather than hindrances; benefits rather than deficits?
Roger, at 80, perhaps you can try just a little bit harder to imagine what it must FEEL like to be a parent guiding a child to adulthood that is the target of hate of an entire political party. Rationalization is a coping mechanism. Just like denial, it can be way overdone. You seem like maybe you want to try to help the terrible situation we currently find ourselves in. To be human is to be emotional. You can’t just cut that part out and be whole.
Thank you, Ermine. I am close on 80. I was raised in a society where views were very conditioned and often very flawed. I have spent my life attempting to release myself from that and understand, as closely as I can without being another, how others feel and experience. My attempts will never cease because I will die before I can come even close to such understanding. However, I have an open mind, don't consciously discriminate on any grounds and check myself quickly if I realise that I am doing so unconsciously as a result of conditioning or whatever.
I agree whole-heartedly that what you say is a desirable way to behave and likely to achieve much more healthy understanding than seeing other views or understandings as representing the people that hold them. Ideas and issues are not the people that hold them. All human beings, in my view, have the same potential for positive and negative behaviours in all types of areas and many factors influence that. Quick, judgmental and reactive responses do little or nothing to facilitate learning and are more likely to entrench false or unhealthy attitudes than to change them.
Another person has berated me on the basis that my previous response to you did not take account of what you have had to endure and how you must *feel*.
I apologise if that is also how my response seemed to you. It was not meant that way for I would willingly advocate for and support your needs and those of others in your and your child's position.
I was simply suggesting that rather than abusing someone for their views, however abhorrent they may be to you, it might be better to explain your feelings and what that means to you and your child.
I am indeed sorry if I caused you more hurt than you have had and have in your life already. That was not at all what I intended nor, I thought, what I wrote.
That’s not entirely true. Some ppl are born intersex and it’s not all that uncommon. In many indigenous cultures, they are highly revered. It’s high time we began seeking to understand before passing judgement. I am a cis straight woman that can also relate to someone that isn’t and the pain that comes with that (meaning not being accepted because of being seen as ‘different’). Have a little empathy for others, please!!
I believe I have much empathy for others and that such is evident in my behaviour over many years and in my support for various diverse groups and individuals and in my writing on such matters.
What I wrote was true. Quite contrary to asserting that there were definitively only two sexes, I pointed out that such is, at the very least, very much open to question today. I also wrote what I did with respect to accepted convention, not truth, reality, or any other definitive position.
You clearly consider yourself empathetic. Perhaps it would be useful to think about how well or poorly you understood what I wrote and just how much empathy you showed for my present understanding.
Everyone judges continually. It is unavoidable. It is not judgment that is a particular problem so much as conditioning and beliefs affecting it and inadequate comprehension that so often causes reaction before reasoned though and a tendency to decry others for views you falsely think or claim they have and with which you disagree.
And I read recently that the male Y chromosome has been decreasing over the years so if there is not enough Y chromosome what happens to the fetus? This info came from a reputable source.
I am not bigoted at all. If that is your conclusion then you have a poor understanding of what I wrote or my position. You are not alone and not surprisingly. Such emotive subjects and online communication tends to exacerbate the opportunity for false and abusive reactions and statements and rarely offers any indication of a person's level of comprehension, understanding in a field or care to discuss an issue rather than confuse it with a person's understanding and so abuse them for that which one chooses not to accept - often precisely because of poor comprehension, strongly emotive personal views and, more often than most realise, the cumulative effect of posts echoing a long previous disagreement.
I hear where you are coming from and the reality you defend. I do not agree that you speak for the experience and understanding of everyone else. I find your snippy response quite uncivil and cruel.
I have never claimed to speak for "the experience and understanding of everyone else." I speak for myself but yes, I may comment on what others offer of their reality and understanding and also of what is common or conventional thought and opinon.
I have no idea how you can describe any of my responses as "snippy" or "quite uncivil and cruel."
If that is your view then I can only surmise that you have not understood my words at all.
I think we've gotten messed up by the thread structure, roger. Or I was a bit cloudy when I responded. I am sorry. You have spoken clearly and compassionately.
That was the case from a Virginia high school where the kid was not transgender, he put on a skirt to rape a girl. It has nothing to do with being transgender. The odious Matt Walsh exploited that case.
A bully has to bully because they don't have anything productive to offer. I know that it seems the Maga Horde is all about "owning" the liberal Democrats. But let's sit back and watch how they attack each other. Bullies don't have the ability to have empathy, not even for their own peers. Things are about to get unreal!
I guarantee she thinks None of that. These people are all performative. Reality TV stars. Fake fuckery. Why so many people think they are capable of any authentic expression is 🤯. There is no authentic person “in there” so there is NO authenticity coming from their mouths!!
You are so damn brave, I wish I could shake your hand. God bless, Mary.
PS You used to live around the corner from my brother on LI. I had hoped one day to bump into you there, but I’ve lost my chance. All the best in your new home.
I’m really afraid it’s Thr Handmaids Tale. Taking groups rights away. Denying human rights. Putting people in detention centres. Putting bibles in schools. Forcing religion on people. Denying women power over their bodies. It’s not far to forcing women to submit to men and carry the children of rape, executions. It must be stopped asap. I’m in Canada and we are already fighting to keep American poison out of here. One thing from the book tracks. American women who voted for Trump are gender traitors.
If you watch Republicans at Trump's rallies laugh and cheer when he is is heaping abuse and hatred on people he calls his enemies you know absolutely that they are exactly like him. It's why they worship him.
If you study their histories, very obvious pampered deprived, grandiosity never curbed at crucial points, unloved and or emotionally abused. The psych list goes on and on
I think that I understand why you say that and what you mean but I think it is unfair to align the Trump demagogues, narcissists and poorly informed, as 'children.'
Children are still moving through the various stages of development and may simply not have reached a level of cognition that allows them to reason rationally. Trump and his acolytes are fully developed as adults but choose to act on the basis of ignorance, self-interest, self-importance and control from which they can profit.
I'm not having a go but I think to label Trump's lot as 'children' is insulting to children. Let us call them what they are, morons. :-)
Wait what? The restrooms in the Capitol don't have doors? As a cisgender female I have never encountered a "ladies" room without doors. I have also never tried to peek behind doors to see what someone was doing. Is Mace worried people will see her wash her hands?
There are co-ed bathrooms in Europe, for heaven’s sake! And also in most college dorms here in the US. While I don’t doubt that there have probably been assaults in some of them, just considering the odds, I also know from 1) a lifetime of being a female, 2) having been raped more than once myself, 3) hearing rape stories from nearly every single female friend I’ve ever had, and 4) having watched and read the news for decades that women are far, far, far, far, far more likely to be sexually assaulted just walking around out in public in the world than they are in a restroom in an office or business. I have never felt unsafe in a public restroom (including the co-ed bathrooms on campus when I was at college), but I have often felt VERY unsafe at parties and concerts and parks and restaurants and on public transit and just walking down the street.
An interesting response and perhaps a little off topic but connected: - do you know that recent research showed that: "19% of Australians don’t wash their hands every time they use the toilet. Close to half (42%) admit they don’t always wash hands before handling food". I have also read that only 78.5% of the US population wash their hands regularly, though I haven't yet been able to verify the source. The many studies and reports also seem to suggest or imply that many people fail to wash their hands effectively.
I think McBride should speak on the House floor and say that the congressional restrooms should be for HUMANS only and not animals and that Mace and MTG shouldn't be allowed to use them!
As a gay woman, which I’m proud to say, I always suspect women who are so vehemently opposed to gay, trans or they. What I think is that they’re terrified of being gay themselves. Or secretly identify with being more male than female. We’ve seen this before in Congress. RememberEx-Republican Sen Larry Craig, who adamantly opposed gay anything?
I'm not totally sure all people who have issues with trans are afraid of those people. I am uncomfortable with them, and it is in large part because I wonder what got to them that made them choose to change gender. I am the survivor of a lot of childhood sexual abuse and I know that as a child I wanted to be a boy because my parents kept telling me I should have been born a boy (I'm the oldest, and in a "perfect" family the oldest child is a boy). I never got to where I acted on that, and also spent years in therapy to find out what was wrong with me and to fix what was wrong. Not all people realize that there are things they can do to overcome things like gender dysphoria - I really don't think most of that is biological. That is my personal opinion based on my life experience.
Thank you for honest Shari g, but you have stated for yourself why it is you don't understand "what got to them that made them chose to change gender." As you also said honestly, you are deciding your position on your "personal opinion and life experience." Your experience is yours. It sounds like it was difficult and you have worked hard to overcome trauma. However, what you have described is not at all the same experience as that of others, especially those who decide also to be honest about who they are. Your experience is not al all yours. So, while they make you uncomfortable, maybe you should meet a few trans folks. Talk with them. Find out what their stories are! And how their stories are not yours. And they deserve to be respected and honored, same as you.
I believe I do respect trans people. I believe that they should have the same rights as everyone else. I'm not sure where I would encounter any trans people, because I don't get out much. I'm sure that I would interact pleasantly with anyone I met.
I appreciate your honesty. And that you would respect the rights of LGBTQ citizens.
You mentioned being uncomfortable and wondering about trans people. Maybe look for a PFLAG group near you. (Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians & Gays) who also support trans folks also. PFLAG has information about transsexual folks. Or, just do some reading on line. Maybe search for stories in Story Corps. Or look for supportive websites. Listen to why it is someone who be honest about their gender, when there is so much disinformation about them.
I'm not sure I'm up for putting in a lot of effort to get to know/know about trans people right now. Our lives have been turned upside down in the last few days and it won't calm down any time soon. But I will save your suggestions for when I have time and energy.
Look into intersex people. (If you simply search “intersex” on YouTube, you’ll turn up documentaries and interviews explaining it.) And the thing about being intersex is that most people who are intersex will never even find out during their lifetime, because in many cases it can only be detected with specific medical tests that aren’t routinely done on people. But being intersex is surprisingly common in humans, it’s just been hidden by doctors and parents.
I've never heard about intersex before, but I'm not really surprised that it is common in humans. The people I'm uncomfortable with are ones who have obviously changed from one gender to the other. It's especially clear with people who have a deep voice that doesn't go with everything else I've seen about them.
They don't "change," they always were but because of the doctor's assignment at birth and societies gendered role-playing, they were raised according to the doctor's perception of them, not according to their actual sex which is encoded in the brain, during gestation. This inate sense of being never goes away. Some people then decide to be their trueselves and seek medical assistance. The person who got it wrong was the Dr. who did the delivery, they use to think sex was between the legs, now science has proven it isn't.
Please emphasize that Mace is capitalizing and reveling in her role as a victim, many years since. She has no interest in healing from her trauma Her willingness to nurture her righteous victimhood informs her willful moral turpitude and intentional cruelty.
It's a flawed justification by default. Transgender people are 2.5x more likely to be sexually assaulted than cis people. Anti-trans activism leads to an overall increase in assaults.
This does not surprise me. The behavior of MAGA is deplorable (Hilary was right). It is a cult of constant gaslighting, projection and hate. I choose love, self-respect and empathy.
Putin and Musk and Donald appear to be conspiring to steal from Americans. While the elected trusted protectors of the Nation are arguing about the potty.
Maybe we won’t notice a few $Trillion missing from the Treasury if we focus on silly stuff. Pickpocket diversion.
Burke, diversion, that's the point and Republicans and their media cohort are really good at it. We are going to have to be aware of their attempts because there will be many and often. We are going to have to learn to call them out for just what they are. Now, let's see, how do we do that again?
You exist in the Dark Ages apparently.
Try using your brain.
Talk about willfully ignorant-you could be the poster child for it.
Actually, "the potty" is important. Women's public restrooms were hard won. Many formerly male bastions of power used to have only mens restrooms (have you ever seen the film Hidden Figures?). Preventing women from having restrooms to call our own has been a surprisingly powerful means of controlling women. Many of us use restrooms as spaces of consultation and solidarity, since we have so little privacy from men otherwise. There are many good reasons, from safety to privacy and dignity, to honoring cultural mandates for sex segregation for women of various cultures, to keep public restrooms single sex. Fortunately for Congressperson McBride, each office suite has its own washroom. I hope the buildings also have private "family" restrooms so that if the mens room feels hostile, this representative can honor the privacy and dignity of women by not using women's restrooms. We need to keep males out of women's prisons (yes, that's a thing) and DV shelters and sports. To say this doesn't argue that males who don't relate to sex stereotypes shouldn't have access to sports or DV services, just that women's single sex spaces need to be respected. When males who ID as women are there, they are no longer single sex spaces, and we no longer have the privacy and dignity we deserve when we take care of our very female needs.
Burke, you are right. It is pretty childish, dare I say, toddleresque? That is just like their fearful leader they are trying to emulate, Toddler-Trump!
Sadly I am not surprised either. Hate is contagious and there is a hate epidemic in the U.S.
I'm not surprised either and every person in Congress, R or D needs to be against Hate. Love is all you need! It will backfire on you, GOP members!
I can't wait for it to backfire!
I must admit I hate Donald Trump and all he represents.
I’m not happy that I hit the heart- I agree with you! MAGA has HATE as their agenda!
Sadly, this is only too true.
*self-care and empathy.
You have to respect yourself before you can effectively care for yourself.
Absolutely! R E S P E C T
Beautifully said Carol Ann!!
Thank you, Morgan! I am speaking from my heart.
It is all about the grift.
Love trumps hate
And Trump hates love.
I agree, Carol-Ann and DonP.
Thank you, Mary 💙.
Your insufferable self righteousness high and mighty attitude is why the Dems lost. Keep it up because if you do..your side will never win another national election and I will be laughing at you the whole time.
Oo a MAGA troll! 😝
I beg your pardon…I am no troll.
Indeed you are, Diane. Laugh on.
So Nancy mace thinks she is protecting women because she’s a feminist. She also thinks she is pro-LGBTQ. She is neither. Sarah McBride is a woman. When she enters a women’s restroom, she is not looking to harass or rape other women; she is looking to relieve herself. The argument that trans women want to rape other women is bogus. Trans women are more likely to be harassed than they are to harass. Mace is an attention seeker who is also performatively cruel.
Sarah is my Representative. I’ve proudly voted for her in every contest she’s entered. I’ve never encountered a more committed or competent elected official.
So tweeting 126 times in 24 hours about the ladies room, is "competent and committed" to what, exactly? Hogging the limelight is what she's committed to, and you actually have to do your job, to be considered competent. Check her voting record.
Sarah McBride is Betsy’s representative, not Mace. Re-read Betsy’s reply.
Might want to take another look at her votes for exactly what it is she is committed to.
As I understand from women assessed male at birth, the transition process with medical assistance pretty much eliminates the possibility of rape via remaining sex organs, as well as removing desire or anticipation of sexual pleasure from such an attempt. As for assault and battery (rape) that is a whole other matter.
And from the way they talk and behave, MAGAs are the ones to fear.
??? And so…ergo???
You really should look into the number of cases of men claiming to be women assaulting actual women and girls in bathrooms
Yes, there are two matters in play here: women who were assessed male at birth as opposed to men disguising themselves as women to prey upon them. We should not impose more hardships on women because of predatory men.
Yes! Important distinction. And let's not ignore men who simply assault women "because they can," No "disguise needed. Like the despot they elected.
Women are at more risk in their homes from male family members and/or friends. We need to stop making rubbish up about men needing to dress up as women to attack women. Men don’t need to do that because they can already attack women, at their leisure, in the comfort of their own bloody homes!!!!!!
Good point.
When did you voluntarily give up your hold on reality. People aren’t ‘assessed’ as one sex or another at birth, they are recognised as male or female. By keeping men out of female facilities we are not imposing hardships on women we are protecting them
Your ignorance and bigotry are disgusting. YOUR reality is twisted. Trans people are NOT the biological gender they were born as. They're not masquerading as the opposite gender, trying to invade bathrooms, and most trans people are receiving medical care to transition, at least in blue states. I have a trans child and your stupidity makes me ill. Try educating yourself by actually reading medical science!
It is so cruel to think or say, " he was born a boy and now he wants to be a girl."
If, as it seems, you have read 'ignorance and bigotry' into that past, then better explain your feeling and why, than mirror that to which you supposedly object.
It has long been the conventional and scientific wisdom that there are just two sexes, i.e. male or female and several genders. That distinction is still commonly used. However, there is now contention in science about whether there are only two biological sexes or whether that has come about because of physical characteristics and not taken into account the *natural* and therefore inherent or biological different make up that exists in people truly of different genders
The reality is that aggressive and abusive language of any sort and from any side does not assist understanding or respect but only confuses and hurts.
Given that we are all of one species, i.e. human beings, wouldn't it be preferable for us to see our differences as opportunities rather than hindrances; benefits rather than deficits?
Complete bullshit. There are more than two sexes. Even Wikipedia knows more about this that you do! Embarrassing for you, mate.
Roger, at 80, perhaps you can try just a little bit harder to imagine what it must FEEL like to be a parent guiding a child to adulthood that is the target of hate of an entire political party. Rationalization is a coping mechanism. Just like denial, it can be way overdone. You seem like maybe you want to try to help the terrible situation we currently find ourselves in. To be human is to be emotional. You can’t just cut that part out and be whole.
Thank you for your well-said comment. Yes,try educating yourself on a topic instead of making it up as you go along.
Thank you, Ermine. I am close on 80. I was raised in a society where views were very conditioned and often very flawed. I have spent my life attempting to release myself from that and understand, as closely as I can without being another, how others feel and experience. My attempts will never cease because I will die before I can come even close to such understanding. However, I have an open mind, don't consciously discriminate on any grounds and check myself quickly if I realise that I am doing so unconsciously as a result of conditioning or whatever.
I agree whole-heartedly that what you say is a desirable way to behave and likely to achieve much more healthy understanding than seeing other views or understandings as representing the people that hold them. Ideas and issues are not the people that hold them. All human beings, in my view, have the same potential for positive and negative behaviours in all types of areas and many factors influence that. Quick, judgmental and reactive responses do little or nothing to facilitate learning and are more likely to entrench false or unhealthy attitudes than to change them.
Thank you for your understanding.
SophieM,
Another person has berated me on the basis that my previous response to you did not take account of what you have had to endure and how you must *feel*.
I apologise if that is also how my response seemed to you. It was not meant that way for I would willingly advocate for and support your needs and those of others in your and your child's position.
I was simply suggesting that rather than abusing someone for their views, however abhorrent they may be to you, it might be better to explain your feelings and what that means to you and your child.
I am indeed sorry if I caused you more hurt than you have had and have in your life already. That was not at all what I intended nor, I thought, what I wrote.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
That’s not entirely true. Some ppl are born intersex and it’s not all that uncommon. In many indigenous cultures, they are highly revered. It’s high time we began seeking to understand before passing judgement. I am a cis straight woman that can also relate to someone that isn’t and the pain that comes with that (meaning not being accepted because of being seen as ‘different’). Have a little empathy for others, please!!
Very true. Two-Spirit goes back generations in many indigenous cultures.
It’s also traditionally accepted in the culture of India as well as among Native Americans.
I believe I have much empathy for others and that such is evident in my behaviour over many years and in my support for various diverse groups and individuals and in my writing on such matters.
What I wrote was true. Quite contrary to asserting that there were definitively only two sexes, I pointed out that such is, at the very least, very much open to question today. I also wrote what I did with respect to accepted convention, not truth, reality, or any other definitive position.
You clearly consider yourself empathetic. Perhaps it would be useful to think about how well or poorly you understood what I wrote and just how much empathy you showed for my present understanding.
Everyone judges continually. It is unavoidable. It is not judgment that is a particular problem so much as conditioning and beliefs affecting it and inadequate comprehension that so often causes reaction before reasoned though and a tendency to decry others for views you falsely think or claim they have and with which you disagree.
Hey Roger, my comment was in response to what Catherine wrote not anything you wrote. Sorry if there is confusion in that regard.
It has been scientifically proven that the X an Y chromosome are the determinant factors in what sex an embryo will develop into, XX female, XY male. However, if the SRY gene doesn’t produce a functional protein, the sex characteristics of the embryo may be disrupted. https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics/fact-sheets/Y-Chromosome-facts#:~:text=Typically%2C%20the%20Y%20chromosome%20is,direct%20lineage%20of%20male%20ancestors.
And I read recently that the male Y chromosome has been decreasing over the years so if there is not enough Y chromosome what happens to the fetus? This info came from a reputable source.
This may be coming about because of endocrine disruption chemicals, which is why there is a push to remove them from plastics.
Uh. There are plenty of babies born, too, where the sex at birth is undetermined. Why are you so bigoted?
I am not bigoted at all. If that is your conclusion then you have a poor understanding of what I wrote or my position. You are not alone and not surprisingly. Such emotive subjects and online communication tends to exacerbate the opportunity for false and abusive reactions and statements and rarely offers any indication of a person's level of comprehension, understanding in a field or care to discuss an issue rather than confuse it with a person's understanding and so abuse them for that which one chooses not to accept - often precisely because of poor comprehension, strongly emotive personal views and, more often than most realise, the cumulative effect of posts echoing a long previous disagreement.
I hear where you are coming from and the reality you defend. I do not agree that you speak for the experience and understanding of everyone else. I find your snippy response quite uncivil and cruel.
I have never claimed to speak for "the experience and understanding of everyone else." I speak for myself but yes, I may comment on what others offer of their reality and understanding and also of what is common or conventional thought and opinon.
I have no idea how you can describe any of my responses as "snippy" or "quite uncivil and cruel."
If that is your view then I can only surmise that you have not understood my words at all.
I think we've gotten messed up by the thread structure, roger. Or I was a bit cloudy when I responded. I am sorry. You have spoken clearly and compassionately.
Fuck. Off.
😳 Damn!! Shortsighted much?
Did you ever hear of intersex people? They do exist.
They are assessed at birth if there's an assessment to be made!!
From other women?
I don’t think that’s factual. It is a medical matter, you need to do more/better research.
M
Last I checked, none, except one in a high school where the guy dressed as a woman was not trans and did it in order to assault a girl.
That was the case from a Virginia high school where the kid was not transgender, he put on a skirt to rape a girl. It has nothing to do with being transgender. The odious Matt Walsh exploited that case.
You are delusional & I believe that YOU need to be looking into your faulty claims. They're just not true!
And could you find any?
A bully has to bully because they don't have anything productive to offer. I know that it seems the Maga Horde is all about "owning" the liberal Democrats. But let's sit back and watch how they attack each other. Bullies don't have the ability to have empathy, not even for their own peers. Things are about to get unreal!
BRAVA Barbara🙌🏽💙💜💙
To put it bluntly, she's a bitch. And I don't like to use that term but it fits here.
That she is !
I guarantee she thinks None of that. These people are all performative. Reality TV stars. Fake fuckery. Why so many people think they are capable of any authentic expression is 🤯. There is no authentic person “in there” so there is NO authenticity coming from their mouths!!
I knew this would be the case but didn’t hear it much during the campaign: “Electing Trump would put not only one unqualified person into office
but innumerable others.”
Unfortunately.
You are so damn brave, I wish I could shake your hand. God bless, Mary.
PS You used to live around the corner from my brother on LI. I had hoped one day to bump into you there, but I’ve lost my chance. All the best in your new home.
Yes, keep it up Mary!
I’m really afraid it’s Thr Handmaids Tale. Taking groups rights away. Denying human rights. Putting people in detention centres. Putting bibles in schools. Forcing religion on people. Denying women power over their bodies. It’s not far to forcing women to submit to men and carry the children of rape, executions. It must be stopped asap. I’m in Canada and we are already fighting to keep American poison out of here. One thing from the book tracks. American women who voted for Trump are gender traitors.
I don't know how Republican voters can vote for such vile people. Those voters can't be like them can they?
If you watch Republicans at Trump's rallies laugh and cheer when he is is heaping abuse and hatred on people he calls his enemies you know absolutely that they are exactly like him. It's why they worship him.
I wish there was a "sad" emoji.
😭🥺😢😔☹️😞😕😥😪😓😓😟🤕🤕😿. 💔Come on, Substack. It’s time!
Exactly.
Ummm, yes, they can be and are like them.
They all have damaged Psyche.
If you study their histories, very obvious pampered deprived, grandiosity never curbed at crucial points, unloved and or emotionally abused. The psych list goes on and on
Cruelty is one of humanity's oldest behaviors.
It starts on the playground.
I was just about to post "why did Americans elect children to be our leaders?"
Our nation is perpetually locked in middle school and high school.
Absolutely, only this time the bullies have the support of the principal!
Actually, they often do, but the principal usually doesn’t realize it.
Bullies are master psychologists. They know that school rules are “We punish the student who THROWS THE FIRST PUNCH.”
So, what they do is this:
They taunt, berate, tease, and manipulate their victim until, in despair and defiance, he flails at the bully with that magical first punch.’
Now the bully and his army have the excuse they need to stomp him into the ground, leaving a bleeding wreck on the floor.
When a teacher finally reaches the scrum, he/she/it asks that magic question, “WHO THREW THE FIRST PUNCH?”
The bullies all point down at the bleeding wreck on the floor.
The teacher hauls off the bleeding wreck to the Principal’s Office, and that satrap of the Board of Education delivers the usual lecture on
The Greatness of America
The Reputation of the School
The importance of NEVER THROWING THE FIRST PUNCH
Then he suspends the bleeding wreck for two weeks for THROWING THE FIRST PUNCH.
The bleeding wreck spends two weeks in hospital.
The bullies give each other high-fives. They beat the hell out of the kid they hate, and that victim got punished for doing so.
The bullies are the victors.
The victim is seared for life.
Only half of them did. The rest are the adults in the room.
The children, unfortunately, own the guns, votes, and jails.
I think that I understand why you say that and what you mean but I think it is unfair to align the Trump demagogues, narcissists and poorly informed, as 'children.'
Children are still moving through the various stages of development and may simply not have reached a level of cognition that allows them to reason rationally. Trump and his acolytes are fully developed as adults but choose to act on the basis of ignorance, self-interest, self-importance and control from which they can profit.
I'm not having a go but I think to label Trump's lot as 'children' is insulting to children. Let us call them what they are, morons. :-)
Wait what? The restrooms in the Capitol don't have doors? As a cisgender female I have never encountered a "ladies" room without doors. I have also never tried to peek behind doors to see what someone was doing. Is Mace worried people will see her wash her hands?
There are co-ed bathrooms in Europe, for heaven’s sake! And also in most college dorms here in the US. While I don’t doubt that there have probably been assaults in some of them, just considering the odds, I also know from 1) a lifetime of being a female, 2) having been raped more than once myself, 3) hearing rape stories from nearly every single female friend I’ve ever had, and 4) having watched and read the news for decades that women are far, far, far, far, far more likely to be sexually assaulted just walking around out in public in the world than they are in a restroom in an office or business. I have never felt unsafe in a public restroom (including the co-ed bathrooms on campus when I was at college), but I have often felt VERY unsafe at parties and concerts and parks and restaurants and on public transit and just walking down the street.
I'm saddened to hear you have been assaulted multiple times. Thank you for speaking up that the danger was not from trans women in bathrooms.
Or not😹
She’s just an attention seeker. Probably tremendously deprived of true bonding with early childhood parenting
I'm sure they have doors, but why not have some single bathrooms for one man or woman at a time. I see them everywhere.
An interesting response and perhaps a little off topic but connected: - do you know that recent research showed that: "19% of Australians don’t wash their hands every time they use the toilet. Close to half (42%) admit they don’t always wash hands before handling food". I have also read that only 78.5% of the US population wash their hands regularly, though I haven't yet been able to verify the source. The many studies and reports also seem to suggest or imply that many people fail to wash their hands effectively.
Not just own the libs … but totally ruin them. An America persecuting Americans, soon to be at cities near you.
Well, the MAGA crowd and other folks that voted for Trump will not be imm
These people are grotesque, sad, and weak.
No truer words. Thanks for always speaking the truth, Ms. Trump. You bring goodness to your surname.
I think McBride should speak on the House floor and say that the congressional restrooms should be for HUMANS only and not animals and that Mace and MTG shouldn't be allowed to use them!
Mary, it is such a comfort to have you on our side.
Nancy Mace must prove she’s a “real” female, Donald’s potential grabbing is not enough … visible proof please.
As a gay woman, which I’m proud to say, I always suspect women who are so vehemently opposed to gay, trans or they. What I think is that they’re terrified of being gay themselves. Or secretly identify with being more male than female. We’ve seen this before in Congress. RememberEx-Republican Sen Larry Craig, who adamantly opposed gay anything?
Exactly!!!
I'm not totally sure all people who have issues with trans are afraid of those people. I am uncomfortable with them, and it is in large part because I wonder what got to them that made them choose to change gender. I am the survivor of a lot of childhood sexual abuse and I know that as a child I wanted to be a boy because my parents kept telling me I should have been born a boy (I'm the oldest, and in a "perfect" family the oldest child is a boy). I never got to where I acted on that, and also spent years in therapy to find out what was wrong with me and to fix what was wrong. Not all people realize that there are things they can do to overcome things like gender dysphoria - I really don't think most of that is biological. That is my personal opinion based on my life experience.
Thank you for honest Shari g, but you have stated for yourself why it is you don't understand "what got to them that made them chose to change gender." As you also said honestly, you are deciding your position on your "personal opinion and life experience." Your experience is yours. It sounds like it was difficult and you have worked hard to overcome trauma. However, what you have described is not at all the same experience as that of others, especially those who decide also to be honest about who they are. Your experience is not al all yours. So, while they make you uncomfortable, maybe you should meet a few trans folks. Talk with them. Find out what their stories are! And how their stories are not yours. And they deserve to be respected and honored, same as you.
I believe I do respect trans people. I believe that they should have the same rights as everyone else. I'm not sure where I would encounter any trans people, because I don't get out much. I'm sure that I would interact pleasantly with anyone I met.
At least there’s one woman in the House of Representatives who is safe from the predations of Matt Gaetz!
I appreciate your honesty. And that you would respect the rights of LGBTQ citizens.
You mentioned being uncomfortable and wondering about trans people. Maybe look for a PFLAG group near you. (Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians & Gays) who also support trans folks also. PFLAG has information about transsexual folks. Or, just do some reading on line. Maybe search for stories in Story Corps. Or look for supportive websites. Listen to why it is someone who be honest about their gender, when there is so much disinformation about them.
I'm not sure I'm up for putting in a lot of effort to get to know/know about trans people right now. Our lives have been turned upside down in the last few days and it won't calm down any time soon. But I will save your suggestions for when I have time and energy.
Can't make typo corrections. "...sharing.." "Your experience is not at all theirs."
Look into intersex people. (If you simply search “intersex” on YouTube, you’ll turn up documentaries and interviews explaining it.) And the thing about being intersex is that most people who are intersex will never even find out during their lifetime, because in many cases it can only be detected with specific medical tests that aren’t routinely done on people. But being intersex is surprisingly common in humans, it’s just been hidden by doctors and parents.
I've never heard about intersex before, but I'm not really surprised that it is common in humans. The people I'm uncomfortable with are ones who have obviously changed from one gender to the other. It's especially clear with people who have a deep voice that doesn't go with everything else I've seen about them.
They don't "change," they always were but because of the doctor's assignment at birth and societies gendered role-playing, they were raised according to the doctor's perception of them, not according to their actual sex which is encoded in the brain, during gestation. This inate sense of being never goes away. Some people then decide to be their trueselves and seek medical assistance. The person who got it wrong was the Dr. who did the delivery, they use to think sex was between the legs, now science has proven it isn't.
Thank you for the education, Joe. This is new information for me.
You make a great point. As Shakespeare said,"the lady doth protest too much."
Eww
Next? Men’s rooms for the uncircumcised?
Mace should be requested to prove her genetic female status. How do we know she's truly genetically female? That IS her standard, isn't it?
Again, EWWW
Please emphasize that Mace is capitalizing and reveling in her role as a victim, many years since. She has no interest in healing from her trauma Her willingness to nurture her righteous victimhood informs her willful moral turpitude and intentional cruelty.
It's a flawed justification by default. Transgender people are 2.5x more likely to be sexually assaulted than cis people. Anti-trans activism leads to an overall increase in assaults.